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The promise of Wycliffe and Huss fulfilled in the preaching of Luther, Calvin, Menno Simons, until the end of the Religious Wars in Germany: 1400-1650.



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:23 pm 
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Marks Of the real Lords supper

These excerpts come from a 1527 writing of Luther entitled, "That These Words, 'This is My Body,' Still Stand Against the Fanatics."

"But the glory of God is precisely that for our sakes He comes down to the very depths, into human flesh, into the bread, into our mouth, our heart, our bosom; moreover, for our sakes He allows Himself to be treated ingloriously both on the cross and on the altar, as St. Paul says in I Corinthians 11 that some eat the bread in an unworthy manner." [Note that Christ's flesh sits on the altar! This is not just a spiritual event happening in our hearts and minds.]

"Death indeed tried once, wanting to devour and digest Christ's flesh; but it could not. This flesh tore death's stomach and throat into more than a hundred thousand pieces, so that the teeth of the grave fell to pieces and turned to dust, and this flesh of Christ remains alive. For this food was too strong for death, and has devoured and digested it devourer. God is in this flesh. It is God's flesh, the Spirit's flesh. It is in God and God is in it. Therefore it lives and gives life to all who eat it, both to their bodies and to their souls."

"Therefore Christ wills to be in us by nature, in both our soul and body, according to the word in John 6, 'He who eats Me abides in Me and I in him.' If we eat Him spiritually through the Word, He abides in us spiritually in our soul; if one eats Him physically, He abides in us physically and we in Him. As we eat Him, He abides in us and we in Him. For He is not digested or transformed; but ceaselessly He transforms us-our soul into righteousness, our body into immortality. So the ancient fathers spoke of the physical eating."


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Which Churches Have the Lord’s Supper?
Which Churches Do Not?

Quotations From Martin Luther




In the same way I also say and confess that in the Sacrament of the Altar the true body and blood of Christ are orally eaten and drunk in the bread and wine, even if the priests who distribute them or those who receive them do not believe or otherwise misuse the sacrament. It does not rest on human belief or unbelief but on the Word and ordinance of God – unless they first change God’s Word and ordinance and misinterpret them, as the enemies of the sacrament do at the present time. They, indeed, have only bread and wine, for they do not also have the words and instituted ordinance of God but have perverted and changed it according to their own imagination. (“Confession concerning Christ’s Supper”; quoted in Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration VII:32, The Book of Concord, edited by Robert Kolb and Timothy J. Wengert [Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 2000], p. 598)




“I take the case of a minister who is quite a scoundrel, and even an epicurean, and who believes that he administers nothing but bread and wine, although the entire church believes that it is body and blood. What should be done in this case? I answer: The mouth is deceived, but faith is not deceived. Nevertheless, if the minister should say the words [of institution] so that the church hears them, it is the unbelieving priest who is in peril and not the church which believes the words and receives what the words say and faith relies upon, so long as there is no public preaching against the sacrament, as there is today among the sacramentarians. For where a church is taught that there is only bread and where it may be that there are one, two, or three persons who believe, the people don’t receive the body of Christ. Only the mouth is deceived, but faith is not deceived. Faith doesn’t sin. But if only one person is unbelieving, this doesn’t take anything away from the sacrament. For Christ established the sacrament on himself and not on the person of the minister. It rests on the Word. Accordingly, when there is a confession of the Word, no matter what kind of knave the minister may be, this detracts not at all from the sacrament. The reason is that a scoundrel, too, swears by the name of the Lord, and it is the true name of the Lord, for unless it is the true name of the Lord he commits no sin. God’s name doesn’t become the devil’s name even when I sin, but I sin for the very reason that it is the true name of God. The pope also misuses the Word. One must assert the substance, and abuse doesn’t remove it. The sacramentarians get rid of the substance and have nothing but bread and wine.” (Table Talk #574, Luther’s Works, Vol. 54 [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1967], pp. 100-01)


With their mouths they [the sacramentarian teachers] say, “Christ’s body and blood are truly present in the Sacrament.” When an unsuspecting person hears this, he thinks, of course, that they teach the same as we do, and he goes to the Sacrament and consequently receives nothing but bread and wine, for his teacher neither gives nor means anything more. The hidden gloss and understanding are just as before – that the true body and blood of Christ are truly present in the Sacrament, yet only spiritually and not bodily, and are received only in the heart by faith and not bodily with the mouth which receives only bread and wine, as before. ...our double-tongued sectarians...say: “Christ’s body and blood are truly in the Sacrament, but of course spiritually and not bodily.” They stay with their previous error, that there are only wine and bread in the Sacrament. ... When a faithful heart has knowledge of such wickedness and falsity in his pastor, or suspects him of it, what should he do? Do you really think that it is possible for his heart to be set at peace trusting such outrageously false words as: “Believe in the body, which Christ meant, and ask no further?” No, dear friend! He believed as much as that already before he came, even if he does not go to the Sacrament. The reason he comes and asks this question is because he wants to know whether he receives with his mouth only bread and wine. He does not ask what he should believe in his heart concerning Christ and his body, but only what is given to him by the hands [of the pastor]. ... Therefore, this is my honest advice, for which before God I am held accountable both to you in Frankfurt and wherever else: whoever has public knowledge that his pastor teaches Zwinglianly, he should avoid him and rather go without the Sacrament all his life long rather than receive it from him – yes, even be ready to die on this account and suffer everything before that. If his pastor is one of the double-tongued sort who mouths it out that in the Sacrament the body and blood of Christ are present and true, and yet who prompts an uneasiness that he is selling something in a sack and means something other than what the words say, you should go to him, be free to inquire of him, and have him say quite plainly what it is he gives out to you with his hands and what you receive with your mouth. What one believes or does not believe in the heart can wait for another time. One should put to him the straight question: “What is held here in hand and mouth?” (“An Open Letter to Those in Frankfurt on the Main,” Concordia Journal, Vol. 16, No. 4 [1990], pp. 335-38)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:43 am 
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Good ole Marty quotes.

It's actually an area of agreement.

Most who disagree on the real presence of our Lord would say that their remembrance of the Lord's Supper does not save and those who believe in the real presence generally agree with them.

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