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1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. [ESV]

I would be interested in any exposition about this verse in the context of its being spoken. Thanks

wolves in sheep's clothing -- the Passage speaks of false teachers -- those who were never Christians but, perhaps, pretended to be

check out the resources at Bible.org ...

but it is plain enough .... the only real test for believers is if they persevere .... those who leave (for whatever reason) show by that very fact that they never were truly born again into the family of God.

This has been the case throughout church history and we see the same often enough ... why can't we tell? because only God can read the heart.

in Christ

Dinah

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In many commentaries, the false teachers John warns about are identified as Gnostics. The Gnostics deny either the humanity of Christ or the divinity of Jesus.

Gnosticism is enjoying a resurgence today among people who have very little bible knowledge. Knowledge is no substitute for faith, but lack of knowledge makes one more vulnerable to false teaching.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Thank you Strider, do you know of any biblical study concerning the Gnostics? To help me clarify what it is they are versus what it is Christians are?

I hope somebody else can give a specific referral for a study on Gnosticism.

I'm using the study notes that come with an NIV study bible. Those are good, but they aren't very deep. In addition one of the teachers in my Bible study has presented some material on the gnostocs, but I don't know his sources.

And there's always wikipedia, as a starting place.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

A solid and significant (for being an article) history of various perspectives on Gnosticism as well as a description with some assessment can be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia HERE. It was by no means a monolithic movement, but consisted of numerous permutations and variants. Also, it is questionable that gnosticism was actually present in the first century at the likely time of John's writing...though it seems to be some form of proto-gnosticism as I understand it.

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1, 2, 3 John, 2 Peter, & Jude all seem to argue against gnosticism -- so it must have been on the move back then -- some Christian ideas mixed with Greek philosophy

Paco,
While it has at times been construed as "gnosticism" it appears to be more of a proto-gnosticism of sorts (as I said). Gnosticism is usually conceived as finding its voice some time beginning in the mid-second century AD. While there might be considered some forms of "gnosticism" prior to this, they are more, again, of what I'm calling "proto-gnosticism" because many of the ideas had not taken the shapes they would later take under such teachers as Celsus and Valentinus.

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I'm not sure what the difference between proto-Gnosticism and Gnosticism. I've read something along the same lines myself. But the NIV notes just call it "Gnosticism".

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Not all those who wander are lost.

ditto -- what matters is both had views that were jacked up

I basically echo Anti. Although I have come to the opinion that there were non-Christian "gnostics" around at the time of John's writings. The ideas of "secret knowledge" and mysticism based on polytheism and Greek dualism certainly precede Christianity. Perhaps some were beginning to synthesize those views with Christianity and that's what John was writing against. I have recently been doing a lot of work in early heresies for a project. Although it is fairly scholarly work, and not what we would consider "conservative" the pre-eminent scholar on the subject is Birger Pearson. You might look into his Ancient Gnosticism: Traditions and Literature.

I don't claim to have the knowledge needed to evaluate the claims about the state of Gnosticism in the first century. Perhaps this is "secret knowledge" that only those who are in on the mystery are privvy to. (little joke).

Maybe it's best to go back to the text of John's epistles and see what's said about false teachers. 1 John 2:22 seems to sum it up. The one who denies the Son is a liar. That could refer to Gnostics, but it could also apply to a lot of other heretics.

2 John 1:7 is a little more specific: those who deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. That seems to point to those who divide the universe into spirit and flesh and never allow for their intersection.

2 John warns against showing hospitaliy to fals teachers. 3 John commends believers for showing hospitality to true teachers. But doesn't really pin down the boundary lines.

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Not all those who wander are lost.

The NLT Study Bible says, in part, the following.

Soon after this, some members of the Christian community left to form a rival group. These rivals were a heretical faction that promoted teachings about Jesus Christ that later characterized Gnosticism, such as denying that Jesus was God in the flesh (see 4:1-3). By leaving the fellowship of the apostles, they demonstrated that they did not genuinely belong to God’s family (2:18-19). However, the effects of their false teachings still lingered in the minds of the faithful, so John wrote this letter to clear the air of these falsehoods, to bring the believers back to the basics of the Christian life, and to reinforce their faith.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says "Cerinthus A Gnostic-Ebionite heretic, contemporary with St. John; against whose errors on the divinity of Christ the Apostle is said to have written the Fourth Gospel."

Wikipedia says "Early Christian tradition describes Cerinthus as a contemporary to and opponent of John the Evangelist, who wrote the First Epistle of John and the Second Epistle of John to warn the less mature in faith and doctrine about the changes he was making to the original gospel."

Wuest says that 1 John is written to combat Gnosticism.

I think the phrase "that later characterized Gnosticism" helps shed light on what proto-Gnosticism might have been like.

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Not all those who wander are lost.