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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Hi. I tried to understand the 390 years and 40 years of sin mentioned in Ezekiel 4 (see below). Does anyone have a better understanding of it? Thanks.


Starting point of 390 years of the sin of the house of Israel: Giving of the Law (Romans 5:13)

Description of the Sin of the House of Israel Time Scripture Reference
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cushan-Rishathaim oppresses until Othniel 8 years Judges 3:8
Eglon oppresses until Ehud 18 years Judges 3:14
Jabin oppresses until Deborah 20 years Judges 4:3
Midianites oppress until Gideon 7 years Judges 6:1
Philistines and Ammonites oppress until Jephthah 18 years Judges 10:6-8
Philistines oppress until Samson 40 years Judges 13:1
Sins of Jeroboam and the Northern Kingdom 208 years (930 BC - 722 BC) 2 Kings 17:21-23, NIV Study Bible
Manasseh’s reign after Hezekiah’s death 44 years (686 BC - 642 BC) 2 Kings 21:1-2, NIV Study Bible
Amon’s reign 2 years 2 Kings 21:1-2
Jehoahaz’ reign 3 months 2 Kings 23:31-32
Jehoiakim’s reign 11 years 2 Kings 24:36-37
Jehoiachin’s reign 3 months 2 Kings 24:8-9
Zedekiah’s reign 11 years 2 Kings 24:18-19
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 388.5 years

End of the siege of Jerusalem: 586 BC

Starting point of 40 years of the sin of the house of Judah: Jesus’ ministry (John 15:24)

Description of the Sin of the House of Judah Time Scripture Reference
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did not believe in Jesus 40 years (30 AD - 70 AD) John 14:9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

End of the siege of Jerusalem: 70 AD


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:27 pm 
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John Gill says the 390 days equal the number of years from the revolt of the Northern house of Israel against Rehoboam and the setting up of the calves at Dan and Bethel, to the destruction of Jerusalem, but he also notes a number of different views by other scholars.

Most of the translations I've looked at describe the years in view as the years of the two houses' "iniquity" or "sin." The ESV and the NRSV describe them differently — as the years of the two houses' "punishment." As I read the passage, it seems that Ezekiel's actions are meant to be prophetic of divine judgment on the two houses, and "punishment" makes more sense to me.

Thomas Constable presents different views in his notes on the text. Alexander (?) apparently thought the days represented years of divine punishment. Dyer (?) seems to have correlated the days of Ezekiel's prophecy with the days of Jerusalem's siege (perhaps in addition to agreement with Alexander).

Dr. Thomas Constable wrote:
That these days represented years of divine punishment seems clear (v. 6), but what years are in view is a problem. Were they literal or figurative years, and were these years in the past or in the future? Unless they were literal years we have no way of knowing what they represented. If they were future years and began with the year of Jehoiachin’s deportation (597 B.C.), which is the date of reference that Ezekiel used throughout his book, the total 430 years would have ended about 167 B.C. This was the year of the Maccabean rebellion when the Jews began to throw off their foreign oppressors, the Syrians, and took control of their own affairs once again (Alexander, Ezekiel, p. 770; Cooper, p. 95). But why God divided these years into two such unusual segments remains a mystery. I think the 430 days may have been the total length of the siege of Jerusalem, which God viewed as punishment for 390 years of the Northern Kingdom’s sins and 40 more years of the Southern Kingdom’s sins. The fact that the length of time the Israelites were in Egypt was 430 years (Exod. 12:40) may have reminded Ezekiel’s audience of that former captivity. Likewise Israel’s 40 years in the wilderness has a parallel in this prophecy. In this case the years of sin would have been in the past (Dyer, Ezekiel, pp. 1235-36). Other views are that the 430 days represented the years of the monarchy, or the years Solomon’s temple stood. It still remains difficult, however, to explain exactly which 390 and 40 years God had in mind (See Allen, p. 66). Perhaps they were the worst years of sin. In some way the length of the siege corresponded to the past years of Israel and Judah’s sin.

[quoted from the NET Bible Study Environment]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:26 am 
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When it comes to some specific number of years we need to remind ourselves that the prophets were not as time conscious as we are today and even in our culture we tend to round off the number of years. When I read about so many years in the biblical text I realize that these are numbers in general and this does not effect my belief in divine inspiration. When there is a difference in the number of years God has allowed the prophets to write in this manner and the number of years are neither a mistake nor a contradiction.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Thanks for the comments.

My problem with the 390 years referring to the Northern Kingdom is that it didn't last 390 years. Even if you combine the United Kingdom with the Northern Kingdom (which ended in 722 BC, not 586 BC), you don't get as much as 390 years. Plus, I wouldn't count all the years of David's reign as years of sin! I guess it is conceivable that the Israelites continued to sin after the exile by Assyria.

My problem with the 40 years referring to the Southern Kingdom is that there were likely more than 40 years of sin, even if we start counting after 722 BC. If the 390 years for the North was counted to 586 BC, it must be counted independently from the Southern Kingdom's 40 years, in which case the 40 years are not limited to the post-Northern Kingdom years, but include the reigns of Rehoboam, Abijah, Jehoram, Athaliah, Ahaz ... surely more than 40 years!

It is also interesting that when God refers to the people of Judah in the book of Ezekiel, He calls them the house of Israel (Ezekiel 3:1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 17; 4:3; 5:4; 6:11; 8:6, 10, 11, 12; 11:5, 15; 12:6, 9, 10, 24, 27; 13:5, 9; 14:4, 5, 6, 7, 11; 17:2; 18:6, 15, 25, 29, 30, 31; 20:5, 13, 27, 30, 31, 39, 40, 44; 22:18; 24:21; 28:24, 25; 29:6, 16, 21; 33:7, 10, 11, 20; 34:30; 35:15; 36:10, 17, 21, 22, 32, 37). He calls them the house of Judah relatively fewer times (Ezekiel 8:17; 25:3, 8, 12). In Ezekiel 9:9, God refers to "the house of Israel and Judah" as one house.

My problem with the 430 days referring to the length of the siege is that the Bible says the siege did not last 430 days. 2 Kings 25:1-3 and Jeremiah 39:1-2 state the beginning and end dates of the siege: 9th year 10th month 10th day to 11th year 4th month 9th day. Assuming 30 day months, that would be around 18 months x 3 = 540 days.

The problem with viewing it as punishment starting in 597 BC is that after that time, the house of Israel and the house of Judah are no longer divided into a northern and southern kingdom. Moreover, the siege illustration really points quite directly to the siege of Jerusalem in 586 BC. It would not be a good depiction a general time of punishment.

The reason I considered the idea of two separate sieges is that in Ezekiel 4:9, God talks about the 390 days by itself. God does not appear to treat the 390 days and 40 days as one 430 day unit.

GaryM, I'm glad you hold firm to divine inspiration and inerrancy. I do too.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:48 am 
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It is possible to read the 390 days in reference to shortly after Solomon finished the Temple and turned to idolatry with his wives (perhaps about 976 BC). This would actually place it very nearly 390 years later that the the temple was destroyed. I do think there is intended overlap by the reference to 40 days (perhaps even intended to designate some other aspect in relation to the time of whatever this particular sin to judgment). Though there is no clear indicator to any particular starting point.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:33 am 
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Antipater, I guess different interpretations are possible when we don't know the exact dates, even given Ussher's and Thiele's chronologies. Let's leave the 390 years and consider the 40 years of the sin of the house of Judah.

How plausible/likely are the 40 years referring to 30-70 AD?

1. It's 40 years and the dates of Jesus' ministry and the date of Titus' siege of Jerusalem are fairly well agreed upon in general.
2. It involved only the house of Judah for the most part, as the Roman province was called Judea, and the people were called Jews.
3. The rejection of Jesus appears to be the direct cause of the destruction of Jerusalem around 40 years later (Luke 19:42-44, and possibly Matthew 22:5-7, Daniel 9:26). The chief sin would be unbelief in this case (John 15:24)
4. Ezekiel lay on his left side for 390 days, and presumably stopped the siege, before laying on his right side for another 40 days.
5. There is no additional specific reference to the 40 days/years of the sin of Judah in Ezekiel. (40 years of exile for the Egyptians aren't exactly related)
6. The siege illustration could be an application of the law of double reference for a prophecy with near and far fulfillment
7. The siege in 586 BC and 70 AD are similar in that they both involved Jerusalem and the first and second temples were destroyed after the glory of God left the temple.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:00 am 
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Notably, however, the 390 refers to the years of the sin of Israel and the 40 to the years of the sin of Judah which was accounted to them. How might we understand this in your reading? It would seem to be a somewhat obscure reference if it is given the referent of "Judah" in contrast to "Israel". It is possible that it refers to the time from Jesus rejection to the destruction of Jerusalem, but I don't see that he "stopped the siege" before commencing with the side for Judah. In fact, it appears it continues.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 am 
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Antipater wrote:
Notably, however, the 390 refers to the years of the sin of Israel and the 40 to the years of the sin of Judah which was accounted to them. How might we understand this in your reading? It would seem to be a somewhat obscure reference if it is given the referent of "Judah" in contrast to "Israel".


I don't think I understand your question. Are you asking about the contrast between Israel and Judah? That when placed in the same sentence, they should refer to the northern and southern kingdoms? In an earlier post, I showed how "the house of Israel" is used many times to refer to the people of Jerusalem and the exiles in Babylon in the book of Ezekiel. So the house of Israel can refer to all Israel including Judah, without difficulty. As for accounting for years, I offered a detailed table in the original post. (Except I don't know how to post tables nicely here)

Antipater wrote:
It is possible that it refers to the time from Jesus rejection to the destruction of Jerusalem, but I don't see that he "stopped the siege" before commencing with the side for Judah. In fact, it appears it continues.


Ezekiel 4:6 says lie *again* on your right side. This could indicate that Ezekiel would get up after 390 days. Ezekiel 4:8 says that Ezekiel could not turn to the other side until he had *ended* the days of his siege. So the siege had to end between the 390 days on the left side and 40 days on the right side. Moreover, in Ezekiel 4:9, instructions to store up food were for the 390 days only. There seem to be no instructions about food for the remaining 40 days, and I'm guessing that Ezekiel could restock after the first 390 days.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Shalom to all that Posted , GreenOnions : Excellant Post !!! Stir Up people*s Mind ... make them Think ... about God ... !!! brothers Gideon , Mike G , Antipater , etc. ... all your posts count and have great insight about our relationship with Jesus - the Word of God - the Bible we read !!! Let me do some research on this , the # 40 is used here ; Moses going to Mount SINAI without food or water TWICE for 40 days - 10 commandments , the Isrealites spent 40 years - Exodus from Egypt to Canaan , Jesus led into the Wilderness for 40 Days to Fast , Etc. !!! I will be back to post on the 390 years , blessed are those that seek the face of God , God is Love ; to forgive and to love one another amen shalom !!! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Oopps GaryM !!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:11 am 
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Green Onions : Shalom to all , ... Num14:34 KJV... speaks of a day up to 40 days the Israelites searched the land to bare their Iniquities , a day for a year , thus the 40 years of the Israelites in the wilderness ... !!! ... 70 A.D. is the time of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem ... for the Israelites refusal to Accept the Promised Messiah - Jesus Christ ... Matt.27:25-26 ... Crucifying a Just man and releasing Barabas ... !!! ... I agree with brother Gideon about what he wrote that the Israelites being in Slavery for 430 years minus the 40 years = 390 ... !!! ... So take 70 A.D. and go back 430 years ... and you will find what you are looking for ... !!! ... I did a study on this before ... i hope to find it soon ... !!! ... Faith Hope Peace Mercy Love from Mount Zion ... Micah4:1-2 ... bless everyone amen shalom :D bye !!!...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:55 am 
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The prophecy was given to Ezekiel in the thirtieth year, that is, after the thirtieth Passover had been observed as counted from the Great Passover of Josiah in 622 BCE, and after five Passovers had been observed from the time that King Jehoiachin (along with Ezekiel) was taken captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.* That identifies the year of Jehoiachin's captivity as beginning in 597 BCE, and it is from that point that the 430 years prescribed in Ezekiel 4 for bearing the iniquity of Israel and Judah must be counted. That brings the end of the prophecy to 167 BCE, the year that Antiochus IV desecrated the Temple and the year that the Maccabean revolt began, thus bringing to an end the spiritual "seige of Jerusalem" (the submission of the Jewish nation to foreign domination) that had begun with Nebuchadnezzar's actual seige 430 years before. That's how I understand it.

(*) The scribes accounted for the passage of years by recording the number of Passovers that had occurred.


Last edited by RTCrudgi on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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