The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

I think this passage is just figurative language. I understand some ancient Jews did view Wisdom as a feminine entity created early. People also use the Wisdom of Solomon and the Book of Enoch to support this view.

_________________
Cobra (the car, not the poisonous reptile)
all scripture is NRSV unless otherwise noted

I agree with you Cobra...it should be figurative. But it doesn't read that way does it? Let's imagine that it isn't figurative (although again I am stuck feeling that it must be) what could it mean? Could there be an angelic being named "wisdom"? I can't believe that this is what we normally call "wisdom", as these passages make wisdom seem unobtainable, while so many others make wisdom a goal for believers. Any thoughts?

_________________
Rev. David Lewis
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil" (on a bumper sticker)
It's all in how you interpret it.

In preparing my book entitled "A Topical Treasury of Proverbs" based on the NET Bible, 2008 Copyright, Biblical Studies Press, I had to come to grips with Wisdom. The footnotes of the NET Bible refer to wisdom in Proverbs 8 as a "personification," and that is how it is presented in my book. Let me see if I can pass on the discernment that I was able to glean regarding this personification.

I first had to learn that Proverbs is not a book of wisdom -- many people refer to Proverbs as a book of "Wisdom." The Lord is premier in Proverbs, and this is seen in the many verses that refer to Lord, God, Creator, etc. Wisdom is just part of what Proverbs is trying to teach us.

Once I saw the strong emphasis on Lord, then I received new meaning from Prov 2:6-10. Here we see the Lord as the dispenser of a spiritual force named wisdom along with knowledge and understanding. Wisdom becomes the supernatural entity from the Lord to help us in our daily walk. In the New Testament, we come to realize that it is the Holy Spirit that is providing the wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Therefore, to answer your question, wisdom is not a person, but is an aspect of what the Holy Spirit provides.

Tom

I agree that Wisdom being a personification rather than a person. Personification is a very powerful literary device used to make either an idea or an inanimate object come alive to the hearer/reader.

God chose to create the universe in a logical and orderly manner. Lining up our thinking and our behavior with that logical order only makes sense. God knows how the universe He created is ordered - and hoe we can best function with in that order.

The figure of "Lady Wisdom" may have been particularly effective to the young men who may have been the primary recipients of much wisdom training. May we be able to make wisdom attractive to the youth who follow us!

Proverbs 1:7 7 Fearing the Lord is the beginning of moral knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Context (NET)

John

_________________
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

Isaiah 11:2 2 The Lord’s spirit will rest on him – a spirit that gives extraordinary wisdom, a spirit that provides the ability to execute plans, a spirit that produces absolute loyalty to the Lord. Context (NET)

wisdom is a Characteristic of the 7-fold Spirit (Rev. 1:4) (aka the Holy Spirit) -- it is a Gift of God though, surprisingly, not a Fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23)

_________________
The proof of love is in the works. Where love exists, it works great things. But when it ceases to act, it ceases to exist.

depends on the version you use -- i used the NET cause it was expedient

i would disagree with that long standing Rev 1:4 tradition but hey

_________________
The proof of love is in the works. Where love exists, it works great things. But when it ceases to act, it ceases to exist.

Sorry to stray a bit off topic, but since this thread is in the poetry category...

I'm truly astounded by how radically interpretive the NET rendering of Isaiah 11:2-3 is. Yikes! If that's what an interpreter thinks the text means, he has every right to think so. But it's not even close to what the text actually says, which is the proper purview of a translation.

_________________
The proof of love is in the works. Where love exists, it works great things. But when it ceases to act, it ceases to exist.

_________________
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Gal 5:6b

Pastor John C. Blackburn

Arian denominations sieze on this passage to support the claim tha God created Jesus and that this is an account of that event linking this passage with 1Cor. 1:24 "Christ the power of God and the Wisdom of God" this would mean, however, that God was somehow not wise prior to this event since this would then be an account of widoms creation.
I take this passage to mean that God brought forth or utilized his wisdom, the wisdom he already had, in the making of creation.
This discussion is one that occurrs about many passages; is it literal? alegorical? or a bit of both?

this is a very cool topic

Pro 8:23 I was made in the very beginning, at the first, before the world began....

John 1:1 In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God.

and the cool part is...

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

...16-18 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

GOD gave the LAW (WORD) to Moses and the LAW became flesh which is Jesus!
Prov28:22-30 refers to the WORD/GOD/Jesus Himself

This is a critical element in properly interpreting Scripture and must be recognized by those pursuing an answer here concerning why wisdom is personified or given the image of a person.

One cannot simply walk away from this, particularly with respect to its context, namely in the books of prose and poetic structure and wish to find something else to affirm their desired view.

As stated this is a common literary device and not so unusual.

What may become a source of difficulty for some is that while here wisdom is personified, there is also one real God expressed in 3 real persons who are, in essence "omniwise" (if you will forgive the modification here with respect to omniscience).

And because of this one might immediately make such a connection or identification and wonder if the passages in the poetic books, particularly here with respect to wisdom being personified, is really trying to communicate a direct reference to our Lord Jesus or God the Holy Spirit (both of whom are treated as divine illuminates for humanity with respect to their work on earth, that is having a presence with humanity and interaction that provides illumination, i.e. wisdom) and beyond that God the Father or even more.

And with this connectedness there is a temptation to withdraw from the obvious literary use and context and in a disregard for its boundaries, seek to overly extend the intent of the writer and God's supervision of the text to include the claim that is also means to speak of a literal person, possible Jesus, God the Holy Spirit or God the Father or even make wisdom into a literal person.

But we do not get to do that, at least not properly, in our hermeneutic. We must abide by interpretive rules. And if what was quoted is not foremost in our minds regarding these passages:


Then we can be lead to claims about such expression that are invalid, no matter our sincere intent or attempts to connect it with other Scripture which are not in the same context.