The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

guykickinit:

So did you find any more renderings of Psalm 51 (based on David's experience of this sad episode)?

It's a most searching Psalm, anyway.

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

So then, the confession in the psalm is Focussed on David saying "I Sinned" and not so much who was sinned against. Himself realizing he was "undone", and needed to repent personally.

_________________

_____________________________________________________
Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

guykickinit:

So, following on, the emphasis would be in recognizing David's very wrong reaction, rather than what might have triggered his actions? (like an inquisitive neighbor's interference is far worse than someone going topless in her backyard, whether innocently or carelessly).

If this makes sense...

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

It looks to the difference between sin and temptation. Being tempted is not a sin, however acting on it is. As is what appears that David is confessing, his sinful action, not what he was tempted by.

_________________

_____________________________________________________
Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

guykickinit:

So in the light of the account of David and Bathsheba, and the emphasis of Psalm 51, men have no excuse by just blaming problems on the stringiness of beachwear, or the minimality of poolside fabrics. They should be responsible and God honoring in their attitudes and attitudes and in the restraint they show.

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

so are you saying Bathsheba, servants, & soldiers sinned or not? -- i haven't read the rest of this yet but am faily certain everyone would agree David was most to blame

i would say both sexes are responsible for what they wear & think

P:

It's really mainly and overwhelmingly about David and his failure. I don't think the passage is mainly about whether Bathsheba should have been topless or not. David's wrongs are central.

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

P:



In a sense you are right, but in terms of taking responsibility and in terms of the emphasis of the passage about David and Bathsheba, and in terms of Psalm 51, David is central.

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

please define what your 1st word refers to & which of my posts you are commenting on

again, as i understand the OP, David sinned, the Text is about David -- all agree on this -- the Q stemmed from Obadiah saying Bathsheba didn't sin & Gideon disagreed -- i would also disagree -- others said the servants/soldiers acted wrongly & i agree that they sinned as well -- so lotsa sin to go around & God Dealt w/ all of it tho the Text focuses on David

caveat: i've only read the 1st last couple posts

paco:

Well firstly, there is the questions of whether Bathsheba cried out in fear or not. It is not recorded. So if it is not recorded, then the question of whether Bathsheba sinned in not crying out is a moot one; the information is not recorded, I don't think.

Secondly, in Victorian times there were elaborate bathing costumes worn and lots of social conventions which even when observed scrupulously, yet still some men found a way to exploit and demean women. It's a heart matter. It's not about Bathsheba's externals, in the end. To say hyphothetically that she - many centuries previously - should have observed Victorian style, elaborate bathing conventions and costumes would be to argue from hindsight and silence.

Again, I think ppl agree it was David who was really at fault.

_________________
Read the Bible prayerfully.For a wealth of sound theology, go to John 3:16.
(My wife and I are very much in love, by the way.)
I don't like extremes of temperature. I don't like extremes among preachers. People maybe think I'm extreme.But never mind about me
A true Christian is different, and the world will notice the difference.Even your tattoo, if it's faith related, it's different!

I agree that the text focuses upon David's transgression. I agree that, in the situation between David & Bathsheba, David had the major influence & power (which put Bathsheba in a precarious position). I do not agree that David was the only one at fault. I do not agree that Bathsheba was raped. I also agree that the majority of this is extra-Biblical speculation.
I think the text contrast the right acts of Uriah verses the wrong acts of David and what those wrong acts led to.

In the end God is just and will judge righteously and without error.

Blessings,
Randy

There were many who were complicit in David's sinning...they would be guilty of sin as well. However, (as has been stated ad nauseum here), the account in Samuel and Psalms is about David and the others are secondary. David does what is right in accepting full responsibility. I read another related passage last night...

2 Samuel 24:1 1 The Lord’s anger again raged against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go count Israel and Judah.” Context (NET)

The LORD (though the Chronicler says "hasatan"...we won't go there in this thread) incited David, because He was angry with Israel (because of breaking the covenant for some reason or other that goes unstated here in the following narrative). However,

2 Samuel 24:17 17 When he saw the angel who was destroying the people, David said to the Lord, “Look, it is I who have sinned and done this evil thing! As for these sheep – what have they done? Attack me and my family.” Context (NET)

says that David makes personal confession to the LORD for his sin (note that he doesn't include the people in this confession even though they were the reason this all happened to begin with).

_________________
Everyone is equal at the foot of the cross...just some are more equal than others.
Forum Code of Conduct
Bible.org Doctrinal Statement
rickwadholmjr.wordpress.com
iheartbarth.wordpress.com
bluechippastor.org
Twitter: @RickWadholmJr

Amen, Randy.
We see David also as King taking full responsibility of the condition of his kingdom.

_________________

_____________________________________________________
Forum Code of Conduct
The Bible NETWork Doctrinal Statement
http://www.answersingenesis.org/