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There is a group of us at my church (Southern Baptist) that would like to begin an AWANA program or something similar on Wednesday nights for our children but we have some opposition. Some people do not want to stop with the RA program, but we have a few men to step up and do something with our boys so a few of us mothers decided to look at other options and bring our small group of children together and begin to follow the Lord by helping our children get more serious about hiding God's Word in their hearts, as Psalm 1 says: to be like trees planted by streams of living water. This is our vision for our children and RAs and GAs has not been very effective with our group of late.

Do you think I am missing something here? Is it vitally important to keep a program just because it is the way it has always been done? We believe in missions and being ambassadors for Christ but there must be more than RAs that can help accomplish this in our children ( like the Word of God itself). We have become so ignorant concerning the bible. Other cultures and religions so indoctrinate their children that they are retaining their children as they reach young adulthood is very high compared to Christian Evangelical children. We are not grounding our children in the truths of God.

I understand being examples to retain our children as much as we can. I know this is a bigger subject than what I started out with. I just do not want to look at this incorrectly. I might be making more out of it than there needs to be. Please, anyone, respond to this for me. Thank you.

I hope I am in the right forum. Sorry if I am not.

Edited AR. As this is such an important issue, it has been edited to remove all caps - but left posted for your comments and responses.

Firstly, welcome to the Forum kformby1. I hope you will be blessed as you interact with others here who are seeking to spread the good news about what God has done for us in Jesus.

Your heart felt concern for the children of believers will be shared by many here, I am sure. But could you help people respond by explaining what AWANAS is, and what RA is?

(Also, please do not write all in capitals - it makes your post very hard to read.)

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Avid Reader

“Lord, in my zeal for love of truth, let me not forget the truth about love.” - Thomas Aquinas
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Thankyou for your welcome to the forum. I am sorry for the capital letters ,I am not a typist nor do I know etiquette when it comes to writing ,not much on grammer either ,but I am going to try and improve.
AWANA is a childrens ministry that provides bible teaching ,scripture memorization and fun for kids . if you want to know more specifics go to awana.org acronym A Workman Aproved Not Ashamed
RA'S is royal ambassadors for christ it is our southern baptist wndsday night program to help train up boys to be mission minded globally and follow christ examplein some ways you could compare it to the boy scouts with Jesus. if I havn't given enough info on Ra there is website for them too.
both are not bad or wrong programs ,I have more to say about this ,and I asm sure you need more info I will write more tommorrow.

Karen

As I see it, the problem is the MEN, not the program. Is this correct?

My youngest did AWANA all the way through, and was awarded her Timothy. It's been a number of years, but as I recall the program, it does require men because the boys and girls are segregated for portions of each program meeting. What I don't remember is if this was more a local practice, although this is the way it was done at two different churches in which we participated with the program.

I will also caution, since you have a small group so I'm presuming a small church that AWANA can require a substantial monetary and volunteer investment.

That said, it's a wonderful program. Every church I've been involved with that introduced AWANA experienced growth in attendance of families with children. Even the unchurched children who attended were going home and working on their recitation, so their parents were hearing the gospel. The nondominational nature of the program also attracted children from other churches who didn't have the program.

Another program that I like is Patch the Pirate. It's music rather than game oriented and designed more for development of Christian character in the participants, whereas RA/GA is to develop hearts for missions and AWANA is for Bible memory with a view to evangelism.

In any event, sounds like your pastor needs to do a preach to the men of your church. It's a common problem, though. That actually, when I think about it, may be another benefit of the AWANA because it's so scripted that little-to-no prep time is required, and the men are usually more amenable to doing the sports-type activities than they are teaching at a child's level.

I do not understand how your particular church makes decisions, but have you talked with your Pastor? And/or elders?

I personally do not think there is a problem with having more than one program going - if you can get people to run them all - but people need to understand that not everyone can go to everything too. It would. perhaps, be a shame if starting something new meant the established program folded - but that is something the pastor and elders need to assess I think. I would be surprised if they were not delighted that a group of mums wants to do something for their children, and they might have ideas that would take less time and expense then it seems the AWANAS might need.

It is amazing how much children pick up at home - more of the "between the lines" stuff than we want, and perhaps less of the more formal teaching we would like. But a bible verse on the fridge door (magnets on the fridge door for notes, reminders, school work etc are part of life here in Aussie land - are they in the USA?), or on the mirror in the bathroom perhaps. Simple things, not made a big fuss of, can go a long way.

As for our young adults leaving the church - it is interesting to notice how many come back again, once they themselves become parents. Nonethless, an area of grave concern, and I do hope many will add their experiences and wisdom here for you.

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Our church is run by our pastor and our deacons or elders , we call them deacons. Yes one problem is that we just don't have enough willing men to step up ,but besides this we do have a divide in our church a couple of our deacons have been unhappy with our pastor for a long time and finally I guess our pastor decided to leave, so we are actually without a pastor our numbers have dwindled over the last few years. I have been sitting in with our youth on wendsday night and feeling really useless , finally our youth pastor and I decided I should step out because of my 15 year olds interaction being less with me their. all of this happened at the same time I had been praying for the L ord to place me where he wants me I ant to serve the L ord whererever he leads and I have been feeling lost in this areaanyway the same time I stepped out of youth Iwas asked to take over a 1st and 2nd grader Sunday school class which I excepted gratefully. our pastor told everyone he was leaving in 2v weeks our RA teacher quit because of burnout bless his soul and the GA (GIRLS ) teacher left also because she happenedto be the pastors wife. since I was now free from youth the pastors wife kind of said you take over the RA AND GA theirs no one else wanting it and I saw a need so I commenced to pray and ask the L ord to lead me in the direction we need to be taking his children, all of this happened within about 3 weeks I have not been involved with the younger children and I did not realize how many we had lost or why we had lost them most of the children we have on wendsday now are my children and the other mothers that come which makes up about 10 -15 kids that includes the kids we bring with us that belong to someone else.I have 2 younger boys 8 and 9 .2 other mothers and myself got together and we ahave been praying and all havetyhe same idea or vision for our children ,we all agreed that awanas or something similar would be the direction we want to go because since our group is small we want to focus on the growth of the children we have and pray God bless and grow us numerically from their we know if he grows it he will provideethe workers there are some of us still very willing, but this is where we ran into opposition we were excited and trying to get info on the awana program or comparable curriculim and talking to the church secretary about finding these things when she just stopped us and asked us why we thought we would be able to do that since we had not asked the powers thatbe, which led to my shock and just surprise really because of the attitude against trying something different, the cry was it is not under the umbrella of lifeway which is where we get our christian resources from . Now I love and have great respect for the judgement and opinions of this lady, but I am having a hard time understanding her view on this . I am sorry this is drawn out . Basically we have no pastor until our pulpit committe finds one , our deacons are divided and our numbers are thinning . I show up on wnds to do soemthing with the kids and someone else shows up because they were told to be there .and that is fine to but there is to much miscomunication goingon and our children are the ones missing out.our church needs prayer and revival please pray for us .
writing all this down has helped me to think through all of this , the issue really isn't the program but the condition of our hearts . There is such confusion at my church right now.
Basically I think we have had some tired overworked and to few doing the job teachers and church for our children has become a small bible time and big activity , pizza party, ting that is falling apart.
things are the same it sounds like for fellow christians here we have bible versus on the fridge and notes of encouragement subtle things that do make differences .
I am new to this forum thing so if I have posted this in the wwrong forum please let me know.

And right place to get some prayer support too. It is always hard when a pastor moves on, and whn too few have been trying to do too much for too long. But there is much good in small churches - you know each other, and having to do it for yourselves can be a real chance to serve and be blessed. Whereas in bigger churches, it can be easy to hide and just let others do it all.

I am pleased writing it out is helping - I find that too.

May God bless you and guide you and your friends as you seek a way forward that will bring glory to him and grow your children in the faith. And may he lead your pulpit committee to find the right person to pastor your congregation, and soon, so that you might all be encouraged to keep on serving the Lord.

I hope someone else can add some practical advice - my "chldren" are npw adults, and the grandchildren not actively involved with a church at this stage (one is brand new - can't miss a chance to say that - she is so beautiful)

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Oh, been there-done that re the no pastor, no communication, dwindling numbers, and various people vying for power. Unfortunately, been there twice over the years. (One a church we attended, the other a church for which I worked.)

I'm not certain where you are, but our association of the SBC has a ministry for supplying specially trained interim pastors to churches where there has been a split, or the pastor left under less than happy circumstances. I'm not certain if your deacons would even know about it unless they'd contacted the association for help, or failed to mention your churches special need for healing ministry.

The interim minister came in and separately took the deacons, the search committee, and the entire church through preparation to find, accept and support a new pastor. He also worked with them to keep things running and the sheep tended during the search process. I only know about it, but not details, as I was a part time employee, not a member, so didn't hear any of the lessons or sermons. What I overheard around the office, though, seemed to be positive relating to the pastor and the program.

I know that this is a very difficult time for you. It was for us as well. I suppose that the only thing I can say is to pray a lot, and remember that you all love each other.

EDIT: http://www.bgct.org/texasbaptists/Page. ... &srcid=255 describes the program for the Baptist General Convention of Texas. Your state may have a similar program.

thankyou both very much for your input , this has been very quieting to my soul.
I havealmost been tempted to take my 2 younger boys to a bigger ,also baptist church in the area and drop them off for awana then go tho my church wher my older son can attend his youth program, and I could continue to help my church with the younger children, I do believe though that the devil would love for me to do just that . I personally prefer the awanas program ,but we have had a gentleman step up to take on RA so I have decided to put my rathers to the side and let the L ord lead and continue in prayer and support . I thought taking my 2 would be good for them, but like avid reader said subtle things my children are growing by the example I try to live before them, so inadequately .
they are learning their bible at home not just at church so I know a sovereign GOD like we have will sustain us thru this time I have decided all of us will continue with our church respectful this is part of sacrifice I feel it is easy for resentments to build when you have all the conflicting power struggles going on, but instead of pointing fingers and feeling resentful I am praying for the love of God to fill us that we all begin to see each other as christ does we must decrease in ourselves so Christ will increase I am ashamed my own negativity has shown at times with my brothers and sisters.
You know we do have some precious godly men and women in our church and sometimes the Lord has to strip us down so that we can get our proper perspective , pride has entered our fold in many of us not just the noticeable ones theirs always the noticable ones its the ones you don't notice you have to look out for like our own hearts.I know my conversation has probably been somewhat erratic ,but it has done me good to get some of it out . I have never been one to give up on anything ,our pastor had been with us for 9 years which is about 1 year less than I have been a member their ,I know there has been a struggle between the pastor and some deacons and some members but I have never involved myself with that . as far as I am convcerned our pastor has always been their to support my family , my husband is an alchoholic we've been married 16 years if it were not for my L ord and my church we would have not made it many times , I have not walked away from my husband the L ord has not given me that o.k. and I cant see walking away from my church when they need my support.
it seems I have wondered from the subject I began with so I will just say thankyou for your input it has helped me ,and I will mention the healing pastor thing to my church.
Avid reader Australia is always been somewhere I have thought I would like to go and if I may ask you I have wondered how it is in different parts of the world as far as church life and living as a christian in certain areas is Australia a lot like America I know christians should e like minderd no matter where they are on the planet but as far as the services and worship or general mindset of the church in Australia how does it go
Here in America our culture is reaking havoc on our churches
Karen

Actually, this might be a good compromise. After we changed churches, the new church was small and didn't have AWANA or many children at all, for that matter. We took our daughter to an independent Baptist church near our home to continue in AWANA. Their group met on Wednesday evenings. If I had to guess, probably half the children in that AWANA group didn't attend that church. She continued to worship with us on Sundays.

We viewed it a bit like having her in a scout troup, as opposed to being "unfaithful" in some way to her "home" church. It just wasn't like that. She had a wonderful time in AWANA and made some really sweet friends through the program. Since she was able to go through the full course of AWANA, she has an amazing amount of scripture memorized.

I would think it would be a good thing to talk about with your pastor. Tell him your concerns and how you don't desire to be unloyal or anything but you desire to have a group that isn't just for the older boys.

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Marv
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actually that was the idea I had when I first thought of my boys going somewhere else on Wends. they could learn so much from awana , the reason I started to change my mind gain was because of the young man stepping up to do RA . I do not want to be discouraging or un supportive of our church or make the young man feel offended in any way, and like I said it is not the program although I prefer awana, it is the love and heart we have for christ and our fellow brothers and sisters.
If the program was detramental to my childrens growth spiritualy and I thought it urgent to move them I would ,but at this point I think we are going to be patient ,and prayerful ,and hopeful for what the Lord is bringing to our church. It still might be that we end up doing that, but right now we are just going to wait.
Marv I hate to say this but I havn't even thought about talking to our pastor our pastor left when all of these things came about at our church, and we are searching for a new one ,I havee told of course my close friends who are christians and mentioned my thoughts to some of the other motehrs that work with our children on wends. they are discouraged just like me. and I have decided to not build a fire out of this flicker ,by moving my children to another church for awana.
I can tell since I have been involved with the children ministy on wends. that the other mothers are looking at me for some direction in handling all of the circumstances we have going on and I do not want to be responsable for adding disunity to our church.
I know this snowball of info keeps getting bigger.

Ah! I see. The churches I've attended who had RA and GA usually did them on Sunday afternoons. (I was a GA myself growing up!) I'd probably have decided the same in your situation. We had no conflicts on AWANA night, so no choice to be made.

Having a young person step up may really energize the boys and the program. What really makes an AWANA or RA program is the enthusiasm of the volunteers more than the materials. And it's so beneficial to the boys to have a Godly young man to pay attention to them and set an example to them. If he's not accustomed to herding young boys, he may have a learning curve and need some support and encouragement. But in the end, this could be a very good thing for your boys!

It's hard raising kids, isn't it? We just have to do the best we can according to what we know, and do it in faith with a lot of prayer ... just like you are doing. Hang in there.

Our church went through something simuliar not to long back. Actually it was not my church at the time. The pasture left. Attendance was down badly. The Southern Baptist in our area are devided up into associations. Our association has like 15 churchs or so in it. The mission director for the association came out personally to stand in the gap as interum pasture until the position could be filled. One his first day there me and my best friend showed up looking for a church in the area to bring our families too. My friend was pasturing a church in ark. and has a masters in theo. and a minor in greek. We all show up on the same day at this little country church. The int pasture brother Clyde Roberts was GREAT. He has a heart for reaching people for Christ, has a HUGE amount of experience with missions all over the world and he was a missionary for 20+ years. His idea of retirement is a place called heaven and he honestly wants to put God first with everything in his life. Our little small country church has underwent a large amount of growth since then. My best friend is now the youth minister, brother Clyde helped us through calling a new pasture that is wanderful for our church. Then he asked if we would mind if he stayed on as a member of the church because our church felt like the mission fields he used to work in and it was Wonderful to see what God was doing here. He just wanted to be a part of it.

Really nice to have three ordained ministers in one church. I would suggest that you ask the deacons to contact the association and let them send someone out. The pastures they send will have some experience in putting things back togeather again in the church. Once God started drawing the people to the church, we had to knock out walls just to make room for all the children. This past sunday we were almost out of room in the sanctuary. People sit around and drink coffee and discuss scripture at the coffee tables an hour or so before church starts and often hang around discussing scripture an hour services are over. Our new pasture is almost overwhelmed at times. He is right out of bible college when we called him. He says his friends and the other pastures ask him how he does it or what he is doing to bring so many in, He just smiles and says it is not him at all, just God at work and he is just hanging on and praising him.

Our bad situation turned into a really great one, I will keep you and your church in my prayers and if you need information how to contact your local association shoot me a private message and I will do all I can to help you figure it out.

Frank

Thankyou everybody for your prayers and input , It seems the Lord is bringing order to our church. our pulpit committee is taking resumees and we are going to have an interim pastor very soon.
Our boys have a dedicated and serious RA leader he is kinda tight and staunchy but that is o.k. we are not all the same and my prayers are with him he will definately needthem with my boys ha ha . The Holy Spirit has really been teaching me a lot about letting love rein in my heart and attitude instead of my own way being looked after.
Anyway, finally it has clearly been established the other mothers would like me to find the program for our girls to go with so now I have some clear direction and at first I thought we should just go with the GA plan since it is girl centered ,but I would like to see what alternatives might be out there before we settle does anybody have a sggestion on materials and curriculum for girls only?