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Assurance of Eternal Security

Please use this thread to discuss page 6

Thank you Jennifer Dent for your topic, Assurance of Eternal Security.

Please allow me to let you have my understanding of this subject as follows.

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Subject: Once Saved Always Saved, with questions

Col 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Please tell me how it is possible to loose that which is hidden with Christ in God.?

2Ti 1:12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

Please explain why these words of Paul cannot possibly apply also, to all Christians?, are you saying that He is not able to keep what you have committed to Him until that Day.

Jud 1:24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Are you saying that He is not able to keep you from stumbling, And not able to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Psa 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, And delivers them

I find the above Scripture verse to be both encouraging, and comforting, I hope you do also

Phl 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Tell me is He able to do this, or not, is it Dependent on me giving Him my permission?

What about the following verses.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,

Am I, a mere human able to prevent God's will being done?

Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Jhn 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Jhn 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
Jhn 10:30 "I and My Father are one."

Tell me does “no one” include yourself, or not ?

Eternal life is everlasting life, and as Jesus says above, they who have it "shall never perish". How then can you possibly say that they will perish, when Jesus says they will not?

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Note that the word "glorified", is written in the past tense, because from the Divine view point in eternity, it has already happened, do not try to understand it, but take God at his word. A real genuine article born again Christian is eternally secure. God has said so, I believe Him, and that's good enough for me.

Jhn 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
Jhn 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jhn 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
Jhn 6:40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
Jhn 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Note: Jesus says "I will raise him up at the last day." 4 times in this chapter, I think He means it don't you?

Please tell me how anyone can read the above six verses, and still maintain that, "Salvation can be lost"? The Fathers will is that Jesus should not lose any of those who come to Him. Is Jesus able to do His Fathers will, yes, or no? This is not a case of you not losing your salvation, but of Jesus not losing your salvation. You can't , and He wont.

1Jo 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jo 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1Jo 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Note. See my comment on "Eternal life", above, also note Eternal life is what you have now if you are a real Christian, and not something you may get later on if you behave yourself properly.

Jhn 17:2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
Jhn 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

See my comment on "Eternal life", above.

To be continued.

Our part of the contract between the Father and us:

Joh 15:3-6
(3) Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. ( this verse sets up our understanding for the rest of the preceding verses. He is directing the next comments to his disciples, i.e believers in Christ as Lord and Savior.)
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
(5) I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
(6) If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Did you mean "lose"?

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Not all those who wander are lost.

Yes I did, thanks for the correction.

Edwin.

Didn't Jesus also say, Matthew 13:18-23 ?

Salvation has to be maintained does it not?

Christian discipleship requires constant co-operation with God for the realization of His purpose.
God does not impart to His children any spiritual change that would make you/me independent of Him.

John 6:67 you don't want to leave too do you? "choice given"

I don't see why anyone would want to leave, but I know many don't count the cost before making the choice.
God Bless

I believe that you CANNOT lose your salvation. However, a person can walk away from the faith, but then I would wonder if it was there to begin with. I cannot tell, only HE can see the heart. The Pastor at my current church and at my previous church, including the pastors I listen to on the radio, all agree; once saved... saved permanently. And if it appears that one has fallen away, and then comes back, he/she is like the prodigal son. His faith not lost only strayed from the path.
Faith proved by works you ask; when all is purified by holy fire there will be those that come thru the gates with smoke rolling off their backs. Then there will be those, that in life, gave their best and will have crowns of glory to lay at Jesus feet.
I used to be one of those that said; "If I make it and get to sweep the streets of gold I'll be happy", but no more. Now when I work it is for him so that I may hear those words of joy; "well done, good and faithful servant".

Yes, once saved, always saved; but each person must know it. There can be no doubt. The devil will sow seeds of doubt saying things like; how can you think God would love a person that has done that? or any number of doubt casting thoughts. Well, If God would Choose Paul to be an apostle; if God would forgive a person like me that has broken every commandment; then it is my belief that any person can be saved.

Blessings

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Thank you cw-nf for your post.

You say,

Didn't Jesus also say, Matthew 13:18-23 ?

Yes indeed He did, but this passage is all about how different people respond when they hear the Gospel.

Those described in verses 19, 20, 21, & 22 do not get saved, whereas those in verse 23 do.

Mat 13:23 "But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

The expression, “the good ground”, refers to the elect.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Tts 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,
1Pe 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

“Salvation has to be maintained does it not?”

Yes indeed it does, which is brought by, “Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

Col 1:27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

"choice given" John 6:67 you don't want to leave too do you?

This was said before they became Christians. Which did not occur until after His resurrection, as is made clear,

Jhn 7:39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Jhn 14:17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Jhn 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

As a reminder this thread is to discuss the article and points of the article listed in the first post of this thread Let's keep that in mind as we post in this thread.

Thank you.

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Jennifer Dent
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Asurance of Salvation: is the knowledgeof forgiveness and acceptance which God Himself gives to a saved soul
This witness is given by the Spirit of God and is confirmed by experience

Is this the same as Eternal security?

With this knowledge of Christ as a personal Saviour comes the confidence to claim every spiritual blessing Christ bestows Hebrews 4:16 Hebrews 10: 19-22

I would ask if Two Christians get married after a period of years get a divorce and remarried one or the other must have sinned Ephesians 24-25 is the one who sinned eternal secure?

Ephesians 5:4-9 "such a person is an idolater---has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
When does this apply and to whom?
Let no one deceive you with empty words "

I see obedience has the nature of the new life---obedient faith God requires involves both divine and human action.

Therefore we leave the elementary teaching about Christ and go on to maturity---which means if we deliberately keep on sinning we are in trouble
Hope this is not of topic
God Bless

the defining verses for me has always been these ones

John 10:26-30 26 But you refuse to believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.” Context (NET)

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There can be a decline of faith---a ceasing to trust in Christ as Saviour---by relying on some other ground of faith Galations 1:6

This form of backsliding can affect whole comunities as well as individuals---or by abanding all trust in the gospel and making a shipwreck of faith 1 Timothy 1:19 by the act of an evil heart of unbelief which departs from the living God Hebrews 3:12

There can be a reversal of conduct by sin of omission or commission---failure to use the means of grace to confess Christ before men to respond to a call to consecration and service or the deliberate and continuous of conduct in thought and deed 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 compare 2 Peter 2:20-22

Just a thought James 1:26-27
Jeremiah 3:22 How do we return?
2 Peter 3:9

The question "how" to live the Christian life---by asking "how" one becomes intrested in the theory of righteousness by faith
There's no point in knowing what to do and what not to do if you don't know "how " to do and not do it. 1 Corinthians 2:2 Paul here is talking about the "who" ---and "who" is the most important even though the "how" is very important.

Because we are born hoplessly religious---there is a God-shaped vacuum in every heart that has to be filled by something----so if people don't want Jesus they will go for being religious

In Jesus day the masses left because it called for too much self-sacrifice
Jesus message was too sharp John 6:66-68
Restoration is always a possiblility