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From what I've read - and it's not a lot (the nearest SDA church is at least 6 miles from here) - they believe that the Bible is inspired and authoritative, they believe that Christ is God come in the flesh, and believe in a literal, physical resurrection, and in salvation by grace.

But I've also read they believe Jesus also (somehow) Michael the Archangel. I don't know if that's just a title they give to Him (if I recall, Matt Henry did that too), or what.

And then there's the...well, weird stuff they believe about Ellen G. White being a prophetess.

And then there's the "baggage" about worshipping on Saturday and the legalism of "don't smoke, don't drink" and etceteras.

Anyone know of a good summary-type article or two?

I have people in my church who have relatives who go to an SDA church, and they're asking, "Is this a cult, or are they more of a Christian group with 'baggage'?"

Maybe there are different kinds or "degrees" of SDA - some more extreme than others?



JR

I sat next to an SDA woman on a long train journey. If I recall correctly, the worship on a Saturday is followed because they see that as coming from a Noahic covenant which they see as continuing now, unlike the Mosaic covenant which Jesus superseded with the New Covenant.
I was a little bemused that on disembarking she left me with some of her tracts.
I don't have much to do with them apart from their Op shop in my town, but I regard them as Christians with some peculiar foibles.

I suggest their own website and Wikipedia as a starting point

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" has placed the SDA in the Christian Cult discussion (an earlier edition) and then into an appendix where the heterodox beliefs of SDA are discussed and the question of inclusion as either Christian cult or evangelical is left for discussion of individual contexts. The SDA are all over the place on their adherence to false beliefs such as: the authority of the prophecies of Ellen G. White, soul-sleep and annihilationism, Christ's ongoing ministry in heaven, the Christ/Michael the archangel connection, sabbatarianism as a marker of who are truly believers (as showing who has the "mark of the beast") and other ascetic practices that become legalistic (including baptism as requirement for salvation, dietary laws, etc.).

I have known some individuals and pastors who were very nearly evangelical and others who I would deem as belonging more to a Christian cult than to any form of evangelical confession. While Adventists embrace certain core historic confessions of the Church they stand apart on quite a significant assortment of beliefs which should leave the question open to debate based upon the individuals encountered and just how far they embrace historic Adventism or prefer a more Adventist flavor of the Evangelical faith.

CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry) recommends that one should not attend an SDA church according to THIS LINK.

I should add that I'm speaking as someone who has not only researched their beliefs, but actually has an SDA congregation in my backyard (literally...they are right behind my home) and meets with the local SDA pastor (as well as the previous three) on a nearly weekly basis individually (as well as having three of my immediate neighbors being SDA) and through ministerial meetings and lunches.

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I agree with Anti's assessment. My working definition of a cult includes that they follow a single human's teachings or interpretation of the Bible. That said, like many other groups, many SDA's today are fairly ignorant on the finer points of White's theology.

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Στηθι εδραιος, ως ακμων τυπτομενος. - Ignatius |II Timothy 4:2| All Scripture is NKJV, unless a translation from the Greek text or otherwise noted.
M.A. Theological Studies (New Testament), Faith Seminary, Tacoma WA
Member, Evangelical Theological Society, North American Patristics Society.
Assistant Editor and contributing author of several published and forthcoming publications.

I figured you'd pipe up Psycho (as you've helped to write a book on the subject of cults ).

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corporately...cult

individually...only God Knows

It's been a while since I took much interest in definitions of cults. The last I remember that seemed satisfactory was of the type that said that cults exhibited a range of characteristics, and any group that exhibited a substantial number of those characteristics could be seen as a cult.

I am interested to know what your working definition is.

_________________
John

My soul looks back in wonder at how I got over

We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes

is calvinism a cult? if they follow teaching of calvin then it must be cult????
i think Ellen WHite is false prophet but having high regard of someone who made mistake in his theology or teaching and saying it is cult , doesnt make it one!!! e.g Calvin wasnt always right in his teaching in my opinion and Luther with his antisemetism! is Roman Catholicism a cult? actually if you think that way , you will find every denomination apart from yours you belong to is cult!
firstly u need to define word "cult"!
what is soul-sleep?
i believe christians go to sleep until coming of Christ then they will be ressurect.
but unbelievers and "middle people"will be sleeping until judgement day in sheol or hell!

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

???

alexey, I don't remember reading where Calvin or Luther had a following claiming that what they wrote was inspired of God the way some SDA's have stated. Maybe you could produce a reference where that happened?

And........"middle people"? What do you mean by that?

Also - I'm curious about how you describe yourself as being Jewish and Baptist.



Jim

Jim,

I would like to state that I've a Jewish friend who is a Baptist. He would quickly tell you that once he accepted his Messiah as Lord he didn't become less Jewish but rather, more a Jew than ever before.
I do, however, agree with the rest of your line of questioning.

I would reccomend to all this website: Watchman Fellowship (this is a Christian organization and not the "Watchtower" of the JW's). It is a great apologetics site to keep in the "Favorites" area of one's links IMO.

Here are a few of the informational articles about the SDA church found there:

SDA Church Profile
http://www.watchman.org/profile/sdapro.htm

The Clear Word Bible: Is it the Word of God?
http://www.watchman.org/reltop/clearwordbible.htm

And a couple of the Break off's from the SDA which others might find enlightening

From Miller’s prediction to Koresh’s rise
http://www.watchman.org/cults/sda.htm

The URATIA Book
http://www.watchman.org/profile/urantiapro.htm

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Blessings,
Randy
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"I would like to state that I've a Jewish friend who is a Baptist. He would quickly tell you that once he accepted his Messiah as Lord he didn't become less Jewish but rather, more a Jew than ever before"

Many Jews, especially Israelis, would violently disagree. It is exceedingly dangerous to be a Jewish Christian in Israel, Just as it was for the apostles:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 30,00.html

This is tame. If you don't believe Time, there are many disturbing videos of this violence documented on video. It should be easy to find on Youtube.

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Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,"
behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION" --
The apostle Paul, NASB

John, this is a very cursory list of things I look at:

1. They exclusively or mainly follow the teachings of a leader or leaders who claims to have special revelation, prophesies, knowledge, etc. and hold these teachings or leaders above the Scriptures as an authority.
2. They require blind adherence to their teachings (i.e., actively discourage members of the group from critical thinking regarding the teachings or teachers).
3. They do not hold to orthodox Christian theology (i.e., denial of the Trinity, denial of the divinity or humanity of Christ, polytheism, henotheism, etc.)
4. They exhibit anti-social tendencies or behaviors (i.e., they require their followers to leave or separate from society) or even violent actions against those not in the group.
5. They actively pressure their followers not to leave and shun, harass, threaten, or intimidate those who do.
6. They require followers to practice aberrant or strange practices and lifestyles like strict dietary prohibitions not found in the Bible (no hot drinks) or strict personal grooming (no cutting of hair/shaving all hair etc.).

There are more, but this is at least a start. A group would need to meet most, if not all these for me to label them a cult. Even if they don't, if they meet most of them I would call them cult-like or cultish. Yes, for the record I consider the Roman Catholic Church cultic in many ways. I do consider the LDS Church a cult, as well as JW's - although both of these groups are changing and loosing some of the tendencies that make them cults.

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Jude v. 24-25

im not jew by birth or physical one im a jew as from religion judaism , i told many times to people Jesus Christ was a jew by birth and by religion, he fulfilled even the teaching of the rabbis(who taught Judaism) look at Matthew 23 !!! and im a baptist because i love Bible and im for concious Baptism when you are an adult and reading the Bible and searching and studying it as Baptist tradition shows that they are trying to be based only on the Bible so i am!!! i love rabbinical literature i believe it helps me understand more jewish culture and context of old and new testament

and middle people are ppl that im not sure where will go but leave it to Righteous and Merciful Judgement of God!

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Hear, O Israel: The Lord our G-d, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

1. The first half of this sentence...yes...amen...the second half - everyone who claims "Scriptures as authority" are talking about an interpretation of those Scriptures, as the Scriptures are the same for all, with a lot of different outcomes in terms of interpretation. Some faith communions simply acknowledge the authority who provides the discernment,; others seem to prefer to sweep "interpretation" under the rug of "Scriptural Authority". Just because a faith community recognizes interpretation and discernment as tasks for dealing with Scriptures does not make those faiths "cultic" or "cultish"
2. I think while a cult may require "blind adherence" to teachings, everyone exercises a measure of personal discernment and judgment regarding faith, its definition and instruction. Anyone who approaches this blindly deserves "cult" if that's what they wander into with their "blindness".
3. The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches are the orthodox Christian theologies. All the others are invented, or innovated from these orthodox traditions.
4. Agreed
5. Agreed
6. Disagree. What is being discussed in this item are disciplines, one of the 3 D's (the others being dogma and doctrine) in the case of some faiths. So asking one to discipline themselves as to choices made, as an exercise in developing a greater focus on God, and less on food, entertainment, etc., especially only during certain liturgically defined periods of the year, are not of themselves "cultic"

I, for one consider a fair number of the non-affiliated, non-denominational evangelical assemblies in my neck of the woods to be "cultic", using very similar criteria to the ones listed. Some of these folks are completely off the reservation in terms of what the believe and what they practice.

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..."Absence of evidence" is not "Evidence of absence"...