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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:38 am 
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Jennifer Dent wrote:
As a gentle reminder this forum is for Pastor's - please read the forum description before posting in this forum!


You're right. :oops: I apologize. I'm outtie.

@John: thanks, I'll catch you in another thread. :)

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Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:40 am 
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Would you say that pacifism is the ideal, but not practical solution? It seems that many people who object to pacifism simply find it too impractical, that there is no way to implement it in the real world. I see that you choose simply to juggle a mix of pacifism and necessity, and keep it all in the air, which I think makes pacifism a little easier to apply.

I also think a lot of Christians stay away from pacifism because of its connections to non-christian leaders like Gandhi, other religions like Jainism, and political movements like the sit-ins of the American civil rights movement. I also think that it is a difficult position that asks for a lot of commitment (not unlike the Christian faith in that sense), and announcing your belief in it tends to marginalize you. It's not a position associated with the mainstream of American or Christian thought (at least not in the circles I move through).


Last edited by Gideon on Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Signature removed per CoC #6.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:25 pm 
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God tells us to be IN the world, but not to be OF it. Our focus is to be Jesus, the Kingdom of God, knowing Him in the Word, etc. As Ephesian 4:11-14 leaders, we bare a responsibility to model what being Christ-like entails.

We are told a good soldier in the Lord does not get entangled in the affairs of this world. Yet we have to make Godly decisions about how we ourselves will live based upon what the Word of God has said. When the Word of God conflicts with the current political climate, there are times when we are going to bump right into it. Was Paul entangled with the affairs of the world when he ended up in jail? It seems to me like he was just trying to lift Jesus up--the very thing Jesus asked us to do. But the government/politics/leaders/soldiers had told Paul he couldn't do that. It didn't stop Paul. He just ended up having to do it from a jail cell.

Ditto Daniel. When told by an edict of the king that he could not kneel down and pray to God, Daniel threw open his windows, knelt down, and he prayed. His word says Having done all to stand, STAND therefore. What are we standing for? Aren't we supposed to be living this life God's way? Absolutely! When man's laws or ways or political correctness run amuck, God's Words are going to create friction. He says He is an offense. In today's world we are seeing the time prophesied where right would be thought of as wrong, where good would be thought of as evil, where people would be killing thinking they were doing God a favor--yelling Allah Akbar as they try to please God by killing Jews and Christians.

This world is not easy right now. God had said that He would shake everything. He is. God also said that we should hear His voice and not follow the voice of another. We are in a time when that is crucial. We need to be thoroughly immersed in God's written Word, and thoroughly familiar with His currently-speaking voice.

How, as Pastors, do we make sure we are not in some aspects blinded and leading others into a ditch? Let's keep crying out to God to split the veil, take away any untruth that has taken root in us, clearly understand His Word, walk before Him with clean hands and a pure heart, and fully believe that God is capable of completing what He has begun in us.

We have read Genesis, and hopefully we have all studied on all the books clear through to and including Revelation. There were wars, and there will be wars. God has written the history of man in advance, and it is clear that all our praying is not going to stop the events of Revelation from taking place. Men will be fighting each other; God will bring judgment. It would seem to me to be very important for us to get God's viewpoint and attitude as we continue through His timeline to the events the prophets foretold.

I have been disappointed in what is being discussed on the forum. When I came back to it this last week I ran threw the new posts. We are facing major issues, but you would never know it by the discussions. My question to us is are we as Pastors making our congregations aware of the importance of the Word and of keeping our focus in the Word and in the Kingdom of God? I am praying that God helps us get people set free from the cares of the world (Mt. 13:18-23) and into the destinies that Jesus has given to each of us.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:59 am 
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Pam K wrote:
...where people would be killing thinking they were doing God a favor--yelling Allah Akbar as they try to please God by killing Jews and Christians.

Is that so different from an American, European or Australian soldier reciting a psalm while he's shooting Muslims?

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Some say Jesus was not a pacifist...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Matthew 26:52 (NIV)

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.
Galatians 5:14


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Bluesman, I'm glad you asked the question. There are several major differences that I see. First, there is a difference between war and civilian murders. For example, when I lived in Israel I was within seconds of being blown to bits three different times. Women and children were mutilated, maimed, killed, or disabled by suicide bombers and car and bus bombs set off by cell phones.

Targeting children purposely is not acceptable. A war on the other hand occurs because nations or tribes have not been able to negotiate an agreement. There are rules of war which are internationally held. Do I like war? Not at all. Would I avoid it if it were possible to do so and please God at the same time? Yes. Are there some times that it becomes impossible to avoid violence as the last remaining solution? Just put it in your own personal existence. A serial killer breaks into your house, telling you he intends to brutalize your family and then kill all of you. Do you fight to save your family or do you just hand them over to him? If it were just your own life, you could lay it down. What about your boys and girls, though? Will you hold their hands as they are assaulted without even struggling to set them free from the evil that has walked in your door?

D. Bonhoeffer was against war and as a Pastor in Germany he struggled to avoid violence. However, in the process of watching what Hitler was doing to not just hundreds or even thousands but to millions of people, Bonhoeffer determined that it was necessary to attempt to stop Hitler. He died for his effort to rid Germany of the wickedness.

There is also the issue that God not only loves, He also hates. That really goes against the grain of what many people believe the Word says. However, it is God Himself who says "Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated." These were twin boys who had as yet not done either good or bad. Yet God sovereignly chose--and He is a just, righteous God--that Jacob would received His love, and that Esau would not. But beyond just withholding His love from Esau, God went past neutral to proclaim that He actually hated Esau.

None of us know the mind of God. However, I trust Him with every fiber of my being. God has said to love what He loves and to hate what He hates. That is my intention--to always side with God. In another vein Jesus said to love our enemies and to do good to those who hate you, etc. Do those two statement conflict? They cannot because God is not a man that He should lie--and He said them both. MY enemies will receive my love. I have determined to forgive them whatever they do or attempt to do to me. But those who are God's enemies, I will side with the Lord.

God hates false religion. He hates idol worshippers. He hates cults. Why? Because false religion deceives those who could otherwise come to Him. What I was saying in my post is that when a false religion is encouraging their "believers" to kill every Jew and Christian, that doesn't set well with God. People who are in those religions are still children of Satan--they still listen to Satan, take their orders from him, and take pleasure in hurting God's family.

So, yes there is a great difference. It's not the country, the region, or the continent that makes a person justified in taking a life. It's standing up for righteousness--God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Personally I would be reciting God's Word too if I were the soldier that is called to battle. Thank God that He has given us the Words of life for such a time as that.

Like I've said before, God didn't leave all the rest of us out of His family. Just because we can't trace our lineage to the Abraham/Isaac/Jacob (Israel) bloodline doesn't mean that we are forever doomed. God made a way for us to be adopted into His family. Some will call upon His Name and be saved. Some won't. The Word says the way to God is narrow and there are few who find it. The Word also says that it is not God's will that any should parish. What are we doing to help people find their way to His saving arms?

To me, theology isn't about hair splitting. It's about finding the Truth of God's Word, finding out what pleases God, and coming into close relation with Him in love and in obedience.

Having lived in the middle of Hamas territory for years I believe I have a really good idea of what evil is. I have no qualms about saying evil exists. I have no qualms about identifying it in action. Sitting in our relative safe environments in Europe or Australia or the USA it is possible to theorize about good versus evil and coming to a compromise with it. Living in an area where demonic spirits are vicious those theories of just getting along together go out the door and the reality that evil is very real and must be confronted rise up. God says having done all to stand, stand therefore. That is what this is all about--choosing which side we will serve. I pray daily against Christians being deceived and about our choosing God.

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We preach Christ, and Him Lifted Up!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:36 am 
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This thread has gone well beyond what the original poster intended it seems. Therefore I'm closing the thread. If anyone wishes it reopened please PM the moderators with your request.

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