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it appears to be Samuel

i think it was him -- God Allowed this for whatever reason -- it's a strange incident to be sure -- it does put to death the silly concept of soul sleep so there's that

Yes, as the Lord os God over the living, as shown by Moses/Elijah speaking to jesus...

God can do that for special purposes, but we are NOT to go out on our own seeking ghosts, as those would all be dealing with demonic forces!

How come you think it is actually Samuel's ghost? Does it say somewhere that God made that special allowance that Samuel actually speak or do you have a gut intuition?

the text indicates that Gos really did bring him back to speak to saul, as the medium was 'shocked" that he appeared, and we know that the Lord can at times do exceptions to his own rules, such as Moses/Elijah brought back to speak to jesus!

ristenk,

Why God allowed it I'm not sure but it was indeed Samuel who spoke. See 1 Samuel 28:14-20 (Note Samuel's death is recorded in 1 Samuel 28:3).
The end of vs. 14 "...Saul percieved that it was Samuel..."
and the beginning of vs 15 "Now Samuel said to Saul..."
and the beginning of vs. 16 "Samuel said.."
and note the phrase in vs. 19 "tomorrow you and your sons will be with me." (me there being Samuel and he is pointing to Saul's death)
and then vs. 20 "(Saul)...was dreadfully afraid because of the words of Samuel."
All quotes NKJV bolding & underlining mine for emphasis.

Was it a ghost as we term that today? I'm not sure. But I am sure that Saul used a medium against the Biblical commandments from God to call up Samuel and inquire of God (a really screwed up thought BTW). I also am sure that God allowed Samuel in some form to speak with Saul and reveal one last judgment on Saul for some reason that belongs to God alone.

Biblical evidence reveals that Saul actually spoke to/with Samuel.

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Randy
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true, as there is NOTHING to indicate otherwise in the texts!

I still think it was an evil spirit impersonating Samuel because I don't think God goes against His own laws and it says pretty clearly in Exodus: "Do not allow a sorceress to live. - Exodus 22:18

I just read this opinion online: The witch of Endor was a woman who practiced the black arts. She would charge a fee for such services as consulting the dead and fortune telling. Sound familiar? She did not get her power from God but from a familiar spirit which the bible teaches are deceiving demonic spirits.

ristenk -- what Saul did was sinful -- this does not mean Samuel wasn't Allowed by God to "appear" -- whether it was Samuel or not isn't the main gist of the Passage, though it is clearly worth deciding for yourself if it was him or not

Then you must deal with the fact that the Scripture indicates nothing of what you are saying AND that evil spirit truthfully prophesied the future and God honored that prophecy.

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Randy
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Yes, I've been wrestling a lot with this thinking myself that Samuel gave a prophesy that came true. I am Catholic and have been wrestling with the visions of Mary at Fatima and other places. I believe that these visions were an evil spirit representing Mary as well and that this is why God told us in the bible to never conjure up evil spirits... it isn't written that Samuel is an evil spirit, just a ghost but God forbid that he do that and he did it anyway. I think Satan fools many people.. doesn't it say that he masquardes as an angel of light and that he can do signs and miracles?.... The apparitions of Mary at many different places to very pious people throughout the ages have done many miracles and healings but I think has been spreading some false gospel mixed in with the truth... isn't that what the devil likes? To throw unassuming (even religious people) off guard? Catholics are christians but thinking about how we are fooled as a denomination in this has been very hurtful to me... I am thankful that we still concentrate and put all our attention on Jesus and how He died for our sins though.... with this realization it made me think about how duped many "false" religions are (and how hurtful if and hopefully when they see the truth they will feel)... like Islam and Mormons... I know a few people in these religions that are good people.. that are trying to worship God but have been misguided by Satan... and the Mormons who have been misguided by Joseph Smith who "saw visions"... perhaps he did or maybe he didn't, I don't know... but I do believe people have seen "Mary" and I now think it was an evil spirit impersonating her and twisting truth as perhaps an evil spirit did in front of Joseph Smith to create a whole new religion to lead people astray....

Anyway, all of this was back to the point that if it is against what God said and it was done anyway than we can't be certain who or what appeared and was talking to Saul... again, "Mary" has performed MANY miracles and signs in front of a lot of pious God-loving catholics. (Matthew 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.)

I totally agree that the "lady of Fatima" was a deminic spirit sent from satan to dube the catholic hearing her at that time...

BUT

the Bible ALWAYS states if a spirit is evul , from satan, demonic etc, and in this cas, NOTHING indicates that it was!

It is true that the Bible is clear that false prophets will perform signs & wonders but the Bible is also clear that false prophets cannot correctly foretell future events. This is exactly what Samuel did when he was brought up.
I know the Catholic body as a whole recognizes tradition over the infallibility of the scriptures but the Biblical evidence overwhelms your arguments re: Samuel IMHO.
As for this other topics, I agree with you.

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Randy
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How, then, do you understand Deuteronomy 13:1-3?

i take it the way you seem to be taking it

a verse would help me see where you get this take

the key isn't whether what they say comes true but how it impacts your relationship to God -- miracles will occur during Rev that deceive

Interesting topic on Ghost Hunting.

Strider, you asked the question rather Samuel was a fake spirit that came from the dead when Saul had consulted with the witch of Endor, or if Samuel was for real. If you read carefully the verses following you will find that the witch of Endor was afraid. Why? Because most witches that do bring up spirits know that it is not the real person's spirit. They know it is demonic spirits. So she was surprised when the real Saul showed up. Why? Because God allowed it to get Saul's attention. Also take notice what Samuel had told Saul. God spoke through Samuel to Saul of his sin. His sin was that he consulted with a witch and the dead which goes against the Law that God had set for the chosen people of Israel. They were not to consult with the dead at any time. Because if they did they would either be stoned to death or put out of the camp.

We are no where instructed to bring up the dead, call on the dead or go looking for the dead. I had found something very interesting in one of the Jewish texts where it states that we are not to consult with the dead. In some Jewish texts it states not to talk to any ghosts. Interesting.

I would be very careful, discerning and watchful over this couple that claims they are Ghost Hunters and possibly claiming to be Christians. Maybe they are Christians but got themselves messed up in this ghost hunting garbage. Because you don't know if they will bring up something that we are to stay away from. And before I would allow them into my congregation or become members, I would want to know what they are about and to give up what is not of God.

The bible tells us that we need to be discerning in all things, when it comes to people coming into our midst to what is being taught in the church. The bible is also very clear on deceiving spirits coming into the churches. Sad to say there are many deceiving spirits in many churches in this day.

Moriah Ruth

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