The Bible NETWork ~ Impacting the World for Christ one post at a time!

Hello everyone

Im new here on this forum. I have been a born again Christian since I was 42 and am now 63. Through these years I have made many wrong decesions as we do with our "free will"..My biggest mistakes were to be unequally yoked 3 times!! Being unequally yoked is a very serious subject, had I known the percussions and seriousness of this command I would have never gone there. I took it lightly and married unbelievers anyway, thinking it wouldnt matter, that I could change them...Oh ha ha, silly woman that I was, went through many years of abuse and falling backwards. Not that I ever lost my faith, but I didnt grow. I became stagnant because there was no activity in my life. 10 years ago I went through my 4th divorce. I then gave it ALL to the Lord. Re-committed my life and heart to God and made a promise. That I would wait on him to send the right person into my life. I didnt look, I didnt date. I prayed and tried my best to walk the walk. However, I still didnt attend services. Hmmmm whats wrong with this picture..
God answered me, not in my timing grant you, 10 years later. During this time I grew very "independent", hmmm another word for this is ALONE. The Lord had alot of work to do with me. So not only did he send me a Christian man, he sent me my very first boyfriend when I was 15 years old, now 64 and a very committed, very active member of his church. He lives by the scriptures. I live 400 mi away. We are engaged and plan to marry soon. He also said I NEED to start attending services. Also NEED to start praying with him. I have a hard time praying in front of him..why?
Now my main question is this, submissiveness? When does it really start? I am currently caring for my 93 year old mother who is experiencing some health problems. He wants me to pack up and move 400 miles, my mother who is not a believer and very set in her ways, does not want to move. He says give her an ultimatum, nursing home or move...He believes submissiveness starts as soon as the promise to marry, he believes he is my protector and champion and that we talk things over, but it is his decission that is final and that he is accountable to the Lord for this...when does it really start? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
A sister in CHrist
Karin

Karin

be very careful that you do not jump out of the frying pan of being 'unequally yoked' to the fire of putting yourself under the control of a controlling man.

For too many men, what they hear when they read (and are taught ) 'submissiveness' is control! .... they believe that it gives them the right to control every aspect of a woman's life. In fact in its most extreme form, they even believe that a woman cannot come into the presence of God without a male 'covering'

I cannot believe that any Christian cannot see this abuse of scripture and of women for what it is, the lies of the enemy.

Firstly, this is not how Jesus treated women ... and Jesus Himself is the only access into God's presence for both men and women.

From what you tell me, this man exhibits a lack of love and compassion for your mother that truly worries me. Because in my experience over the years, a truly Christian man exhibits a beautiful gentleness and care for others.

Also love is the mark of all Christians, it is a command direct from the Lord Himself and is echoed by all the Bible writers ... but especially Paul in 1Cor.13 and John in 1John ... please read these, they will show you both the importance of love, and what true love looks like.

Now to submissiveness .... the scriptures most used are Ephesians 5 .... but they start at verse 21 ... when in the original Greek it is obvious that the block of teaching includes verse 20 .... so that all of us are to submit to one another out of love and reverence to Christ (not just women to men!).

In fact, for a man this submissiveness is strictly spelled out that he is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church - that is, Christ loved the church sacrificially, to the point of dying on the Cross to present her to Himself as a beautiful bride, without spot or blemish.

Christ is our Lord and Christ is our Master - please get some other advice ... (if you email me, I can give you a good website) ... and please do consider if you want to live your life under the domination of a man who believes he has the right to control you.

in Christ

Dinah

_________________
Forum Code of Conduct
Forum Statement of Beliefs

Hello again

Thank you for your reply..Actually I feel really humbled as I forgot to say what a wonderful, loving caring man he is. He has tried to get close to my mother, but my mother will have none of it, because she only wants me in her life. We have tried to talk her into driving up with me to his home and staying for a week to get to know him, but again she says no, she doesnt want to meet him. She has a very poor outlook on men in general and also Christians. She feels all Christian people are just people that have nothing else in life to hang onto so they become Christians so they can act better than everyone.
I know what controlling men are like as well as controlling women. My mother is a controller even into her old age. My ex husband was such a controller it was like being in the army. So actually I already stepped from one fire to the next. My fiance is like a welcome breeze on a hot day, Ive never been treated so well, even though he does expect a few things of me, but I was still curious of where the true "wife submissiveness" begins. During the engagement or after marriage.
Thank you
Karin

His take on submissiveness still worries me ..... but even most complementarians (those who believe in the eternal submission of the Son and the woman) would think that marital submission begins with marriage.

Yes you must pray, you must go to church, you must read your Bible .... but not because he tells you to, but because this is the way Christians live, and so it is God that tells you to. The final purpose is not your obedience (although obedience to God is vital), but it is for your good, so that you experience the joy of being conformed to the image of Christ.

PLEASE be careful! .... I cannot begin to imagine the heart-ache of your situation. I have been blessed with a wonderful husband, and we have been married fof 46 years. Both from observations of my own marriage, and from other, successful marriages (even between those who strongly believe in the woman's submission) what really happens is a true partnership, as each tries to please the other ... in other words, a willing submission takes place.

In my own marriage, we always discuss important decisions together and come to an agreement. Although we are agreed that if we cannot agree then my husband has the casting vote. I am happy with this because I know that my heart sometimes rules my head, and my husband has a greater ability to stand back from the problem.

BUT and it is a big BUT .... we agreed on this (and I think in good marriages it is always like this, whether it is spoken or not). I feel safe to do this, because I know my husband, I know that he would never take advantage of me or use his power over me against my wishes. In fact, he is always so careful to find ways to do things so that I can be happy with the decisions we make, because my well-being means more to him than his own.

I am blessed .... in my husband I see how Christ loved the church, how power is used to bless and not to control.

In the case of your mother, is it not possible for your fiance to move closer, so that you would be near enough to keep an eye on your mum without actually having to live with her? .... if not, then you both may have to agree on a longish engagement to give her a time-frame to get used to the idea. As you get older, change is harder, and it takes time.

in Christ

Dinah

_________________
Forum Code of Conduct
Forum Statement of Beliefs

Eve was created as a "help meet" for Adam and she was purposed to be his guide and mentor. After the fall, Adam ruled over her and the wicked have ruled over the righteous ever since. It happened also in the next generation Gen. 4:7. Adam and Eve were one flesh and they were equal and they were both called "Adam". After the fall, Adam named his wife Eve which means "living"-she was the tree of Life and was the one who became wise. She was also promised the Messiah as her seed who would conquer Satan and death. The matriarchs are superior to the patriarchs in prophecy-Sarah, Rebekah and Rachel. Miriam was a priestess and Deborah was a judge. There's also the story of Ruth and Esther. I know women in the church are subjugated but there is coming a time when the Messiah comes that women and the righteous will rule over men.

when you speak about "ruling" then you don't understand the heart of Jesus .... as He makes clear in the this passage from Matthew 20:20-28 ....

"You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
Not so with you!
Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave - just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." (NIV)

also Paul clearly taught :
"submit to one another out of reverence for Christ (Eph:5:21 NIV)

finally, in the Christian community, and the age to come :

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal.3:28 NIV)

in Christ

Dinah

_________________
Forum Code of Conduct
Forum Statement of Beliefs